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	<title>Comments on: Is the Reformation the Last Word?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/</link>
	<description>The Sacred Journey of Mark Traphagen, the Foolish Sage</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tracie</title>
		<link>http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/#comment-6589</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 02:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rmfo-blogs.com/rumorsage/?p=472#comment-6589</guid>
		<description>Finally found some good infomation on the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally found some good infomation on the subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Traphagen</title>
		<link>http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/#comment-5981</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Traphagen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rmfo-blogs.com/rumorsage/?p=472#comment-5981</guid>
		<description>T.B.V.,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Do you agree with Jordanâ€™s assessment of the Reformation in light of new and changing trends that apparently Jordan sees occurring?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don't know about my view at all being "in light of" any "trends that apparantly Jordan sees." My point in this post, as I've said a few times in these comments, was not to defend Jordan point-by-point but to use his thesis as a springboard to consider the meaning (or even existence) of some kind of progressive understanding of the revelation in Scripture throughout Church history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T.B.V.,</p>
<blockquote><p>Do you agree with Jordanâ€™s assessment of the Reformation in light of new and changing trends that apparently Jordan sees occurring?</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about my view at all being &#8220;in light of&#8221; any &#8220;trends that apparantly Jordan sees.&#8221; My point in this post, as I&#8217;ve said a few times in these comments, was not to defend Jordan point-by-point but to use his thesis as a springboard to consider the meaning (or even existence) of some kind of progressive understanding of the revelation in Scripture throughout Church history.</p>
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		<title>By: T.B. Vick</title>
		<link>http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/#comment-5977</link>
		<dc:creator>T.B. Vick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 22:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rmfo-blogs.com/rumorsage/?p=472#comment-5977</guid>
		<description>Mark,

Do you agree with Jordan's assessment of the Reformation in light of new and changing trends that apparently Jordan sees occurring?

Also, are you a student at Westminster?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>Do you agree with Jordan&#8217;s assessment of the Reformation in light of new and changing trends that apparently Jordan sees occurring?</p>
<p>Also, are you a student at Westminster?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Traphagen</title>
		<link>http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/#comment-5948</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Traphagen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rmfo-blogs.com/rumorsage/?p=472#comment-5948</guid>
		<description>Gotta respect anyone who's preached through Judges...twice!

I do think that Jordan's book is indeed a good challenge to us to "see through new eyes, especially with the challenge that there may be even more unity to the Bible than we even thought. Certainly he challenges us to develop a healthy "first read" (reading the Bible as its original readers would have read it), and I think that's why prof. Green had us read it. I think where some of my fellow students were put off, John, was in Jordan's "cocksuredness" that some of his most speculative interpretations are "obvious" and therefore correct. You have to admit that he gets a little midrashic now and then, but as Enns and Green have taught us, a little midrash now and then is not necessarily a bad thing (cf. New Testament use of the old).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gotta respect anyone who&#8217;s preached through Judges&#8230;twice!</p>
<p>I do think that Jordan&#8217;s book is indeed a good challenge to us to &#8220;see through new eyes, especially with the challenge that there may be even more unity to the Bible than we even thought. Certainly he challenges us to develop a healthy &#8220;first read&#8221; (reading the Bible as its original readers would have read it), and I think that&#8217;s why prof. Green had us read it. I think where some of my fellow students were put off, John, was in Jordan&#8217;s &#8220;cocksuredness&#8221; that some of his most speculative interpretations are &#8220;obvious&#8221; and therefore correct. You have to admit that he gets a little midrashic now and then, but as Enns and Green have taught us, a little midrash now and then is not necessarily a bad thing (cf. New Testament use of the old).</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/#comment-5946</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rmfo-blogs.com/rumorsage/?p=472#comment-5946</guid>
		<description>If you want more of Jordan on history and the future, check out his &lt;em&gt;Crisis, Opportunity, and the Christian Future&lt;/em&gt;.  He's drawing a fair bit on Eugen Rosenstock-Huessy there, among others.  Interesting stuff.

I used to be bothered by Jordan's exegesis.  But then, having studied Klaas Schilder (one of the fathers of "redemptive historical" preaching: see Greidanus, &lt;em&gt;Sola Scriptura&lt;/em&gt;) and others, my objections diminished.  When I first preached through Judges, I found a lot of helpful stuff in Jordan's commentary but wasn't persuaded by other things.  The second time I preached through Judges, I discovered that a lot of those "other things" were pretty compelling to me.  What happened in between is that I did more reading, thought a lot more about how the Bible communicates, asked more questions, etc.

Besides, Jordan will often say that his work isn't intended as the final word, but that he hopes it will be a helpful word.  Who else do you know who's written about the things Jordan writes about -- e.g., Jachin and Boaz, or the chariots of water in the temple, or the dietary laws of the Old Covenant, or ... well, the list could go on to include most of his Biblical Horizons papers.

As for Jordan's relation to theonomy, if you listen to his lectures on the subject you'll find that he isn't a theonomist.  He has many objections to Bahnsenian theonomy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want more of Jordan on history and the future, check out his <em>Crisis, Opportunity, and the Christian Future</em>.  He&#8217;s drawing a fair bit on Eugen Rosenstock-Huessy there, among others.  Interesting stuff.</p>
<p>I used to be bothered by Jordan&#8217;s exegesis.  But then, having studied Klaas Schilder (one of the fathers of &#8220;redemptive historical&#8221; preaching: see Greidanus, <em>Sola Scriptura</em>) and others, my objections diminished.  When I first preached through Judges, I found a lot of helpful stuff in Jordan&#8217;s commentary but wasn&#8217;t persuaded by other things.  The second time I preached through Judges, I discovered that a lot of those &#8220;other things&#8221; were pretty compelling to me.  What happened in between is that I did more reading, thought a lot more about how the Bible communicates, asked more questions, etc.</p>
<p>Besides, Jordan will often say that his work isn&#8217;t intended as the final word, but that he hopes it will be a helpful word.  Who else do you know who&#8217;s written about the things Jordan writes about &#8212; e.g., Jachin and Boaz, or the chariots of water in the temple, or the dietary laws of the Old Covenant, or &#8230; well, the list could go on to include most of his Biblical Horizons papers.</p>
<p>As for Jordan&#8217;s relation to theonomy, if you listen to his lectures on the subject you&#8217;ll find that he isn&#8217;t a theonomist.  He has many objections to Bahnsenian theonomy.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Traphagen</title>
		<link>http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/#comment-5936</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Traphagen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks, Justin. I was hoping you would come by and give us the straight story. No apology needed; as I said, I heard it from someone who &lt;em&gt;thought &lt;/em&gt;that's what you said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Justin. I was hoping you would come by and give us the straight story. No apology needed; as I said, I heard it from someone who <em>thought </em>that&#8217;s what you said.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/#comment-5933</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rmfo-blogs.com/rumorsage/?p=472#comment-5933</guid>
		<description>Regarding the comment above about Jordan's WTS thesis and Southern Slavery,
 Mark, i'm really sorry if i misrepresented Jordan to you or to others...I only read a few chapters of his WTS thesis, but i saw that while he advocates a modern version of biblical "servitude," he does say that slavery as it was practiced in the South was a perversion of biblical slavery...he doesn't, for instance, think that race-based slavery is biblical at all. I think i mentioned that, but if not, let me repent here of any misrepresentation of Jordan's views.
 I hope that's helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the comment above about Jordan&#8217;s WTS thesis and Southern Slavery,<br />
 Mark, i&#8217;m really sorry if i misrepresented Jordan to you or to others&#8230;I only read a few chapters of his WTS thesis, but i saw that while he advocates a modern version of biblical &#8220;servitude,&#8221; he does say that slavery as it was practiced in the South was a perversion of biblical slavery&#8230;he doesn&#8217;t, for instance, think that race-based slavery is biblical at all. I think i mentioned that, but if not, let me repent here of any misrepresentation of Jordan&#8217;s views.<br />
 I hope that&#8217;s helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Traphagen</title>
		<link>http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/#comment-5930</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Traphagen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rmfo-blogs.com/rumorsage/?p=472#comment-5930</guid>
		<description>:lol:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://foolishsage.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: AnotherCoward</title>
		<link>http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/#comment-5927</link>
		<dc:creator>AnotherCoward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rmfo-blogs.com/rumorsage/?p=472#comment-5927</guid>
		<description>Wait ... I thought we couldn't read the Bible ... ah man, why did I bother converting to begin with?  I hate book reports!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait &#8230; I thought we couldn&#8217;t read the Bible &#8230; ah man, why did I bother converting to begin with?  I hate book reports!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Traphagen</title>
		<link>http://foolishsage.com/2005/12/08/is-the-reformation-the-last-word/#comment-5926</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Traphagen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rmfo-blogs.com/rumorsage/?p=472#comment-5926</guid>
		<description>Interesting link, AC...but I was more enthused about the Sept 16, 2005 article on that page :wink:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting link, AC&#8230;but I was more enthused about the Sept 16, 2005 article on that page <img src='http://foolishsage.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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